If
you've been following the presidential campaign, you have probably heard some
talk about the power of the evangelical vote.
Pastor
Max Lucado is a prominent evangelical pastor and a prolific best-selling writer
who almost never writes about politics. And that's one reason millions found a
recent essay of his so interesting.
Lucado took to his site to describe all the reasons he says
Republican frontrunner Donald Trump's tone and decorum fail the decency test in
a blog post titled "Decency For President."
He cites Trump's belittling of women and people with disabilities,
among other people, and his constant name-calling. He says such comments
"wouldn't be acceptable even for a middle school student body election ...
but for the oval office?" His essay, also published in the Washington Post, has
now been shared millions of times.
Interview Highlights
Michel Martin: What is it that made you want to weigh in here? Why
now?
Max
Lucado: Controversially so, I'm not involved, that troubles many people. Kind
of the bottom line for me, I don't think people come to the church where I
preach to hear my view on politics. I'd like to think I'm going up river in
talking about world view topics rather than particular political or
controversial topics. So I've just stayed away from it through the years, which
is funny because there was a time I wanted to go into politics. And so all of a
sudden here I am, I guess. I'm in the thick of it.
I would
not have said anything about Mr. Trump, never, I would never have said anything
if he didn't call himself a Christian. It'd be none of my business whatsoever
to make any comments about his language, his vulgarities, his slander of
people, but I was deeply troubled ... that here's a man who holds up a bible
one day, and calls a lady "bimbo" the next. Here's a man who calls
himself a Christian and yet just had the audacity to make fun of a lady's
menstrual cycle. ... He didn't just do this on occasion, but repeatedly,
unrepentantly. Somebody sent me a list of 64 people he's called loser. Just
this week it's continued.
It
deeply concerns me that somebody who knows little or nothing about the
Christian faith would hear Mr. Trump call himself a Christian and then make a
decision based on the Christian faith, based on his behavior. And so I just
felt like I should say something. I did not expect to stir up a dust storm that
this blog post has stirred up.
MM: Tell me what struck you about the reaction.
ML: We
were stunned by the response. ... It really struck a nerve. We had so many
responses, we had to quit publishing second generation responses because people
were beginning to argue with each other ... not what I intended for it to be.
... Most of it has been positive, many people have said "This is what I
was thinking, thanks for saying it on my behalf." But there are many
people who were just really ticked off that I would dare to suggest that this
behavior is inappropriate.
MM: One thing that you noted in your follow up post is there
seemed to be a deep undercurrent of worry.
ML:
There is and you could sense that, you could almost taste it. There's an angst
in the country, and I think there's a fear. I think there's a fear of we don't
know what's next. And I've tried, maybe you can help me, I've tried to put my
finger on the root of this fear. I feel like really we're better off than we
were eight years ago, 10 years ago in many ways. There's certainly things we
can do better at but the economy is somewhat stable. We're not engaged in the
level of international conflict that we've been involved, still you would think
we were. There's just a level of anxiety.
I'm
personally of course of the persuasion that all of our issues are spiritual
issues and that a disconnect with God creates a disconnect with our neighbors
and that leads to anxiety. ...
MM: Many people say in fact that they're puzzled about the appeal
of Donald Trump, especially to professing Christians. The fact is, he has
racked up many votes and endorsements from leaders. For example on Super
Tuesday, every state that Donald Trump won, he received the majority of the
evangelical vote. What do you think the appeal is?
ML: I'm
curious why we're giving him a free pass on this behavior. Typically,
evangelicals have tried to hold our leaders up if they call themselves
Christians to a standard consistent with the faith and then of course
consistent with whatever office they hold. But it seems like we're more than
willing to give Mr. Trump a free pass. The classic one was in Iowa when he was
asked, "Do you ever ask for forgiveness of sins?" and he said,
"No, I don't need to." I nearly fell out of my chair. That's right at
the heart and core of the Christian faith, that we're all sinners, we all need
forgiveness of sins. I do not have an answer for your question. I've asked
people who support Mr. Trump, "How do you reconcile the disconnect between
what he claims to be and what he says?" ... I'm as baffled as anyone as to
why. ...
If
President Obama had used the language and spoken with the same disrespect that
Trump has, and identified himself with a Christian, there is no doubt in my
mind that I would've expressed the same concern. ...
We just
have to hold ourselves to a higher standard if we're going to be leaders and if
we're going to be Christians. I do believe that leaders have to be held to a
higher standard, especially Christian leaders. I put myself in that camp.
MM: What would you say to people who are fed up with the
government and think that it's gone too far on social issues like same-sex
marriage and abortion, and feel that Donald Trump is the only candidate that is
willing to do to something about it?
ML: My
concern is that somebody would make a decision against Christianity because of
Mr. Trump's behavior. And that's my high concern here. And to that person I
would say, the way he speaks about people is not the way our master, our savior
has taught us to speak, it's not the way our scriptures urge us to speak. The
bible urges us to be respectful to all people, especially people with whom we
have disagreements, to never libel people, to never label people. Now this is a
huge deal in scripture, and so I would encourage that person, and the reason
I've gone so verbal and vocal with this is because I'm protective of the
reputation of Christ and the church, and I would ask that person not to
interpret the Christian faith through the words of Mr. Trump.
